2017 bulk sanitizer/cleaner interest survey

Forums HOMEBREWING 2017 bulk sanitizer/cleaner interest survey

This topic contains 35 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Jeff Wala 1 year, 5 months ago.

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  • #3486

    john tobin
    Participant

    Might be hard for someone to coordinate a bulk purchase without knowing how many people would commit to buying in. This thread is just to gauge interest.
    A 4x 1gal case of StarSan and a 50# pail of PBW would be the minimum purchase size so if people could comment on units of 1 gallon for StarSan and units of 12.5# of PBW, we’d have an easy time splitting a minimum purchase of 1 each across 4 people.
    Pricing will be dependent on volume ordered along with shipping cost, but if a reasonable amount is ordered, I’d think the StarSan and PBW would be about ½ the cost of the smaller size containers at retail purchase, just to give you an idea for budgeting.

  • #3487

    john tobin
    Participant

    I’d buy 1gal StarSan and 12.5 lbs PBW

  • #3488

    Harry Harris
    Keymaster

    I would be interested in possibly 1 gal of Star San and 6-8 lbs of pbw. Not sure I would want more than that but depends on pricing. One gal of Star Stan on Amazon is $89.99. So if we could get at close to half price $45.00/gal would be worth it.

    Harry Harris

  • #3489

    Peter Steinberg
    Keymaster

    I’ve got this underway.

    Once I get the shipping location solidified I’ll post here and to the members list with the details.

  • #3491

    Jay Hinkens
    Participant

    I would commit to 1 gal of star San and an entire 50 lb PBW.

  • #3500

    Duane Buscher
    Participant

    I’d like a 5-way split of PBW. I know we can get 5 people who could use 10 pounds. If there are more than 5 people interested, then we’ll all just split evenly.

    • #3572

      Duane Buscher
      Participant

      Ted, Gary, Joe, and Brian all interested in splitting 50 lbs of PBW, 10 lbs each?

  • #3502

    Colin Crowley
    Participant

    I would be interested in a significant amount of both, depending on the pricing, but I will be able to commit once this and the bulk grain buy has been worked out.

    Colin

    • #3503

      Duane Buscher
      Participant

      Define significant? I only really want 10 pounds of the PBW, you want the rest?

      • #3532

        Colin Crowley
        Participant

        I am likely to buy 1 gallon sanitizer and 50lbs+ PBW. Once I see the exact costs, I should be able to sort it out. I might be willing to buy 40 lbs.

  • #3505

    Jeff Wala
    Participant

    128oz of Star San would make 640 gallons of solution! Brewing once a month (or reusing for a month), that is over a ten year supply!

    Given that we will be buying in 4 gallon increments [edit: just remembered Peter mentioned there are also 5 gallon pails, so that would increase flexibility some], i think we will have to be flexible on amounts per person somewhat. Ideally i’d only want 32 oz (1/4 gallon), but would buy 1/2 or a whole gallon if needed since a gallon would cost about the same as 32oz in a store.

    Also, there is a warning that the acidic Starsan can damage some plastics with prolonged contact. Does anyone know how to tell if a given non-original container would be safe to store it in for 5+ years? I guess i could use some mason jars if needed…

  • #3514

    Ted Loveland
    Participant

    I’m in for 12.5# PBW (or more if necessary).

  • #3533

    Gary Lockwood
    Participant

    I’d be in for #12.5 of PBW. I wouldn’t need a whole gallon of Starsan but would split or quarter one

  • #3534

    Joseph Farnsworth
    Participant

    I’d be interested in a gallon of starsan and many pounds of pbw however it works out

  • #3537

    Daryl Lamprey
    Participant

    I’d buy a gallon of star san and a 50 lb. bucket of PBW

  • #3569

    Brian Wild
    Participant

    Is this still under consideration? I’m a little late to the party, but I would be good with a gallon of Starsan and however many pounds of PBW as well. PBW maybe no more than 10-15lb?

    • #3570

      john tobin
      Participant

      Peter had posted some pricing he had gotten in a later, separate post and indicated he could get shipping costs based on how much people had interest in product. I believe this thread would be the only way there will be an indication of interest, so good to post here like you did, since replies to the whole membership didn’t make sense. I’m counting on another notice to us all as he informs us how this order is going to be placed and when. Seems there’s enough interest for a dozen or so gallons of StarSan and a few pails of PBW at this point.

      • #3581

        Colin Crowley
        Participant

        Where/What were the prices? I missed that e-mail.

        • #3582

          Jeff Wala
          Participant

          Are you reading this in the forums at the MHTG website? If not click on the link in the email you were sent. There is another thread in this “Homebrewing” forum by Peter with the estimates.

          These WordPress forums have to be about the ugliest and most klunky implementation of forums out there, but just look around the menus for “Forums” and “Homebrewing” and you should find it eventually.

  • #3584

    john tobin
    Participant

    I put this google doc together from the comments of interest above: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hTOsU68Cq11ZcjHFP_NPAupbobPOeZHjbLU4O0gFXAk/edit?usp=sharing

    This thread was set up to gauge interest since prior to this, comments of “interest” were just being sent to the general membership email list. I see from Peter’s other post (the one listing prices), he’s got a link to this thread mentioning this is where you’d arrange a “split”. That wasn’t quite the intent of this thread…given the title is “interest survey”, but if we use the attached google doc to finalize what we want, it can be used to coordinate the splits.

    Take a look at the Google Doc and make adjustments if you’d like.
    The numbers at this point should be what you’d commit to buying based on Peter’s price of $37/gal StarSan and $150/50#pail PBW, shipping included.

    The StarSan is simple as there are 8 people interested which is an even 2 cases.

    PBW is almost there. There are 11 of us interested, 3 wanting full pails. A few of us indicated flexibility so I think we can get to a 2nd full pail of splits (at 90# now). Perhaps someone knows 1 more person who could sign up for 10 lbs? Otherwise maybe some of us can bump up a little?

    • #3586

      Jeff Wala
      Participant

      I only want a partial gallon of Star San, but Gary also wanted a partial so we can split the 8th gallon. If anyone else wants a 1/4 or 1/2, i think they can have part of this also…

  • #3585

    Joseph Farnsworth
    Participant

    I’d gladly take more pbw or pencil me in for whatever makes the numbers work good thanx.

  • #3587

    Colin Crowley
    Participant

    I would like to switch my 50# order to the last 10# lot as that will help my cashflow between sani/grain and cleaner; so we should be set as a group.

    Colin

  • #3610

    andrew bohl
    Participant

    hey did i miss out on this?

    i got a bit busy and forgot about it since i wasn’t seeing it in the emails anymore.

    just curious, thanks

    • #3611

      john tobin
      Participant

      I believe Peter Steinberg contacted those indicating interest for however he was planning an order. I’d recommend emailing him directly as no other info was posted unfortunately… peter.steinberg@thermofisher.com

  • #3664

    Jeff Wala
    Participant

    The discussion that preceded this order on the members list mentioned that StarSan is preferred over iodaphor because it remains effective once diluted whereas iodaphor only lasts for a day or two. I’ve since found that this is conditional. Regular tap water will not produce a stable mixture, the StarSan will loose it’s potency in the span of a few days or less also. To make a mixture that will remain as sanitizer indefinitely, it must be mixed with purified water. FYI

  • #3667

    Colin Crowley
    Participant

    As I recall, as long as the pH stays below 3.5 the sanitizer is good. With Madison tap water having high alkalinity, the pH likely rises quickly. I usually prepare a fresh batch monthly, but you can always check the pH to determine if your Star san is still active.

    Colin

  • #3669

    Jay Hinkens
    Participant

    While checking the pH with a meter is the best answer, doesn’t StarSan turn cloudy when the pH rises?

  • #3672

    Jeff Wala
    Participant

    I just listened to an interview with the inventor of StarSan. pH is only half of the equation, it is the ionic detergent that works with the acid level to be effective. He didn’t really say how long a normal mixture with tap water would stay effective, but stated that ‘if’ mixed with de-ionized water, it would last for “months”. I’d be checking a normal tap water mixture after a week for sure.

    He did say that turbidity (cloudiness) is a indicator of effectiveness or loss thereof. However, i don’t think it is the result. When i mixed a batch with my well water, it was instantly cloudy. I’ll test the pH next time, but for now am guessing the turbidity indicates the detergent is acting upon elements in suspension, that it turns cloudy as they are going to work. If the solution has been cloudy for a while it would be a sign that is it no longer effective, but if the cloudiness itself indicates ineffectiveness, there should be warnings not to use it with heavily ionized(?) water.

    In other words, if it is cloudy, in a short while it will be ineffective. But, cloudy does not equal ineffective and clear does not = effective. Does that sound right?

  • #4480

    Jeff Wala
    Participant

    I haven’t sanitized much in the last half year until recently. StarSan is taking a lot of getting used to. The foam is annoying when i am sanitizing carboys, but i’ve been assured it represents nothing harmful to fermentation or drinking. What i can’t figure out is what to do about stoppers? If i sanitize rubber/plastic stoppers with the StarSan, they do not hold in the neck of the carboys. They are all sliding to the top and balancing there, except for the ones that don’t balance. Finding airlocks on the ground next to a fermenting carboy is less than ideal for me. Do others use these stoppers successfully with StarSan?

  • #4513

    Peter Steinberg
    Keymaster

    I’ve never had a problem with stoppers coming out.

    Are they properly sized and all the way in?

    Is the airlock opening clogged so the pressure build up is forcing them out?

  • #4514

    Jeff Wala
    Participant

    I have 3 kinds of airlocks, it is happening to each type. The only thing that seems to work reliably is the orange caps that came with used carboys i bought. However, the two caps i have are sized different in the spouts, one doesn’t take a normal sized airlock and the one that does doesn’t fit the smaller rubber cap for the other spout. I’m sure a few trips to the W&H Shop and i will find something that works, then have to buy 10 of it. I’ve also had the hose slip off of my bottling wand a few times now creating a big mess. Seems i have to relearn my entire system to accommodate Starsan, would have been much easier and less $ to stick with Iodaphor. Plus, i’m taking the community’s word that the copious amounts of foam left in my carboys won’t do anything to my microscopic workers.

    BTW, i’m mixing 1oz Starsan to 5 gallons of distilled water…

  • #4515

    john tobin
    Participant

    If I have a stopper that won’t seat right I use zip ties to hold it in place. when things dry out I can remove them if I want. Always works.

  • #4516

    Jeff Wala
    Participant

    Pics or it didn’t happen!

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